E56 – Reviving Conversations: Human-Centered Sales Techniques with Joe Fontana

E56 – Reviving Conversations: Human-Centered Sales Techniques with Joe Fontana

 

On this episode of the Pipelineology podcast, Gary interviews Joe Fontana, Chief Marketing and Growth Officer at BuyerForesight Amzai and author of “Fred Flintstone Selling In A George Jetson World,” about using conversation-driven events to build pipeline for long-cycle, multi-stakeholder B2B deals. Joe argues that despite automation and AI, sales is fundamentally a series of human conversations, and his model focuses on curated micro-events centered on prospect pain rather than decks, demos, case studies, or self-promotion. He explains targeting and research over an eight-week window, the importance of defining the “why” that gets prospects into the room, and disciplined follow-up that continues the conversation without immediate pitching. He outlines fit criteria (B2B tech, law firms, associations) and shares contact info and his own monthly tastings as a no-pitch example.

Discover: 

00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro

00:41 Joe’s Background and Sales Philosophy

02:31 What Conversation Events Are

05:11 Getting the Right People in the Room

09:21 No Pitch Decks or Prework

11:17 Follow Up That Builds Trust

13:23 How to Build the Target List

16:58 ROI Math and No Show Reality

18:48 Why Small Rooms Win

22:18 Owning Relationships Post Event

25:15 Who This Works For

29:20 How to Reach Joe

33:51 AI and Bad Outreach

34:57 Wrap Up and Thanks

https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-fontana75/

 joe@amzai.ai

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Gary Ruplinger: Alright, welcome everybody to another episode of the Pipelineology podcast. Today I’ve got a very special guest with me. I am pleased to let you know that he has been voted the best CMO in the nation by his son. He’s also, also the author of a Fred Flintstone Selling In A George Jetson World. And despite all that, he still finds time to tell terrible dad jokes. Joe Fontana, welcome to the show.

[00:00:27] Joe Fontana: Pleasure is all mine. Thanks for having me.

[00:00:29] Gary Ruplinger: I am, I am excited. I’m excited for the conversation today, but for anybody who’s not familiar with you and your work, could you give us a little bit of kind of a background of, you know, who you are, how you got here and 

[00:00:40] Joe Fontana: Yeah, of course. So I am Chief Marketing and Growth Officer for BuyerForesight Amzai. We’re a prospect intelligence, demand gen agency that works with B2B Tech firms, large law firms, and associations on driving conversations that actually build pipeline. I’ve been building sales teams now since the nineties.

I’ve seen pre-tech, post-tech, pre-automation, post-automation, pre-AI, post-AI, and I think now with all of these bells and whistles and all of the automation and AI that’s driving go to market motions, a lot of people have forgotten that sales is nothing more than a series of conversations.

Conversations that drive you from awareness to consideration. You know, conversations that, that move you from life as it is today to life as it can be. So when people are asking me, what do you know, what are your thoughts on AI, what are you doing to stop it? I am doing nothing to stop it. I want sales teams out there using their automated trash, not doing any research because there’s a smart marketer or a senior seller that realizes that in three hours I can solve all of their pipeline issues by making sure that the individuals in the room are the exact people from the exact firms that they want to talk to.

Because they’re not bringing their pitch decks and they’re not sharing a slide. There’s no case studies. Anybody has to read just a conversation around pain. They’re finding the foundations of a pipeline that honestly stand the test of time. That’s my story. I’m sticking to it. 

[00:02:31] Gary Ruplinger: I’d love to kind of dig more into the, the, this kind of event, event thing. Because I know on your, profile you say, you know, it’s not webinars, it’s not spray and pray events. It’s real conversation. So I’d love, I’d love to kind of just even understand what, what, are these?

What, when you talk about an event, what is it?

[00:02:50] Joe Fontana: So my events, and I do them all sizes. I build large conferences with three to four hundred people all the way down to what some people might call micro events. And, this is, these are the one to few dinners, the one to few tastings, eight to 12 individuals that are a 100% match to your ICP. These are the people that play a role in decisions being made at the companies your firm wants to do business with.

So we typically need eight weeks to target those individuals. Engage them like humans, engage them. Drive them to sit in these rooms and learn from their peers. And it’s all about the pain. I think that’s what differentiates what an objective third party vendor like me can do compared to the average seller or marketer that wants to fill a room because they make it all about them.

Some of them are blatant with hey, our latest features and benefits, and this just got upgraded and we’re now doing that, to are you aware of where we just landed in Gartner’s Magic Quadrant? Did you see the award that, you know, nobody but us knows about that we paid to receive? So they can’t help making it about them and the impact they can have and the problems they can solve.

Today’s buyer has done all that research. They don’t need to be wowed by that. By the time they’re talking to you, 80% of the leg work’s been done and they’re looking to you for credibility, for clarity, and for trust. What better way to form that in a room where there’s no target on your back? Where There’s no sly mention of oh yeah, I solved that problem with this company, or your competitor came to me.

It’s talk to us. The best rooms are the ones where my client’s not talking and they’re all just sitting there, ears open, mouth shut because their prospects are talking through things they would never share with a seller, with a marketer, with, with any selling organization.

[00:05:09] Gary Ruplinger: So I’m curious what your approach is for kind of getting people in the room, because I know like near down the road from me, there’s a place that their whole thing is, you know, they do events for financial advisors. Basically the kind of, you know, dinner type of things where you get people in the room and then the financial advisor yaps for, a couple hours, but he gave you a free meal type of thing.

So, you know, that’s, the whole, that’s the whole

model. 

[00:05:31] Joe Fontana: Yeah, the timeshare conversation. This is a little different because my clients have extremely long sales cycles. I’ve got a few outliers that have a three or a six month sales cycle, but these are nine month, 12 month, 18 month deals. There’s six figures just to say hello. We’ve seen deals closed in the mid seven figures.

There’s multiple stakeholders. think about any SaaS solution, any tech tool that’s engaged with at an enterprise scale where five or six people need to be part of that decision making process. That’s where we thrive. And we thrive because we’ve uncovered the pain of their prospect. And that’s all we talk about.

That’s what does the heavy lifting for my events, my client’s brand, we don’t want it doing the lifting. I don’t want the venue doing the lifting. I don’t want Gary saying oh, I can’t wait to go to that spot. Oh, I’ve always wanted to go there. I want you there because that 60 to 80 word note that I shared, the text that my team sent, the 30 second conversation all around what makes you sweat the bed do the lifting. And when it does, they’re there for the right reasons. And when it’s just a conversation and you haven’t tried the bait and switch or enjoy your steak, now hear about what impact I can have on your future or your organization. When you remove all of that and have just a real conversation, you’ll find that these people are interested in having another conversation. And so long as you leave the demo free in that conversation and get the disco language out of your mouth.

Take some Listerine to get the commission breath away and have additional conversations. If you’re willing to do this extra quote unquote legwork early, you’ll find that your deals close in 20% of the time, and they typically close for 15 to 40% higher than average because you took the time in the beginning to develop that credibility, to show that clarity, to say we are not the best people for you, this guy is.

And, and a lot of sellers forget that that’s what sales is. They think sales is making sure that my apollo tool is working and that I’m linked in with Clay, and that outreach is synced up to CRMs. That’s not sales, that’s administration. Sales is having difficult conversations, conversations that challenge both the buyer and the seller.

And so I’d like to tell you I do something exotic and sexy and crazy, but I don’t. These events have, been time tested. We’ve done thousands. We’ve got the data to support what the good follow up looks like, what the poor follow up looks like. To such an extent now we do, you know, probably 30% of our business is retained because we’re not only building out events on our end for you,

we have the abilities and capabilities to insert ourselves in your existing event calendar. You’re going to Black Hat, you’re gonna be at RSA, your company is a platinum sponsor at Inbound. How do you monetize that? How do you go from a, a handshake? And here’s my demo, and I hope you enjoy the socks to a conversation that justifies these five and six figure investments.

And it all comes down to human connection.

[00:09:16] Gary Ruplinger: Yeah, I remember when we were, I know we were talking a few minutes before we pushed the record button. One of the things that kind of surprised me about it is you said, yeah, we’re not, we’re not sending out, you know, like pre-sales material and case studies before the attendees. we’re not, we’re not trying to do it that

way.

[00:09:31] Joe Fontana: Because it’s not about that yet. It’s not about that yet. That’s why so many companies fail. That’s why so many great marketers right now are scratching their heads and sellers are losing their kazoos because if that is a me motion, I want you to see, it’s like trying to prep them up for something they’re not ready to be prepped for yet.

Yeah, I, I, I match your ICP, but that’s all I’ve done so far. So why come to that? And so many companies get it wrong hey, doing things like that. Hey, look at my case study. Review this curated gated content. Put yourself on a mailing list. Commit to look at five minute Loom or a 30 second demo. The gig is up.

Buyers don’t need you for that. They have communities for that. There are slack channels for that. There is simple process of looking up your logos on your website and doing the research. There’s G2, there’s Trustpilot, there’s so many places for them to do the research. They don’t need it from you. And the average person that’s even sitting down for these dinners is no dumb ass.

They’ve done the research on us so they know what it is that’s happening here. So a lot of times they’ve come with some education on who’s this company that’s sponsoring this dinner? Why would I want to be there? What is it that they have to say? This is interesting, I never considered this. Or this is an interesting angle.

There will be time for case studies. There will be time for demos, but it’s not the dinner and it’s certainly not the next day. Because that’s where a lot of companies get it wrong. We immediately go from Gary and Joe had a great dinner, I know Gary’s got a dog and two kids, he just got back from a bourbon tour.

And now the next morning, hey Gary, I’m Joe’s SDR. You didn’t meet me last night, but here’s a link to schedule a demo.

Instead of hey, you mentioned something about this one brewery while you were out there, one, one distillery. Let’s talk about it when we’re on a call in two weeks. Or owning it at dinner. So the smart companies are laying the groundwork for what the future looks like before the appetizers are even served.

So at my events, a subject matter expert’s letting people know I’ve taken the time to put, to put a placeholder on everybody’s calendar next week because there’s 15, there’s 18, there’s 12 of us in this room. A lot will slip through the cracks. There’s both things you want to learn and things we want to continue to learn.

But just like this dinner, no pitch, no deck, no obligation. You don’t want to come, great. You want to come? Great. And when they’re conducting that conversation for what it is, which is just a continuation of another conversation. They should leave that call knowing where they stand with the prospect. Is this an opportunity?

If so, what stage or when will this become an opportunity? Because I currently have a variable here that’s out of everybody’s control. Budget, bandwidth, the board, whatever the case may be, that’s keeping this particular person from wanting to move forward today. And for those that are smart, they’re getting the buy-in from that person of what the next six months look like from a nurture perspective until they are ready to make this, to put this back in the front of their radar.

[00:13:06] Gary Ruplinger: I’d love to

get 

[00:13:07] Joe Fontana: That was a very long answer to a very simple question.

[00:13:13] Gary Ruplinger: I’d, I’d love to get kind of a sense of what, what it kind of, how the, kind of, how the sausage is made in terms of you say okay, we’re hoping to host, we’re hoping to host this event eight weeks from now. And you make, whether it’s, you know, 10 or 15 people you want to have in the room, when you’re looking at that initial list, that initial group of people, like how, big of a target list do you have to start with so that by the time eight weeks are up, that you’ve got those, those right people in the seats 

[00:13:43] Joe Fontana: So it, what’s the best way to put this?

Yeah. at, the, it depends if you’re doing it virtually or not. If you’re doing it virtually, I’m looking at at least 150, 200 companies that they want to target. So I typically reverse engineer my event based on the companies you want in the room. What do they look like? What defines them? Can I make a lookalike list based on this criteria?

From there, it becomes a question of the titles, the roles, the responsibilities that you want in the room. We then heat map that list and we’ll come to our client and say okay, based on where your prospects call home, here’s where you should be hosting events. If we don’t have the concentrations that we’re looking for, we’ll then pivot to a virtual event.

Those are the easy things. The most difficult thing to, work with clients on is the why. Why is this person getting in a car going an hour out of their way to sit down with 10 complete strangers? Once I have that, and a lot of clients have that baked in. A lot of clients will also come to me for that research first, like find out what my prospects want to talk about because we think we know, but we’re not sure if we know.

So a lot of my events, especially my Amzai model where we’re doing a lot of retained business, before we even think of building an event, it’s let’s reach these prospects and ask them what they want to hear. What hypotheses does a marketing or a sales team need to validate or perhaps contradict? From there

those conversations, the surveys we build from them usually provide us with the content we need. Because that’s another thing that we’ll do for organizations. We’re gonna reach out to your ICP. We’re gonna have conversations, we’re gonna validate what we learned and then provide to you the content they want to hear and talk about.

 But once we have that content, once we have the lists, I need eight weeks and five hours of my client’s time. Hour to onboard, stand up meetings, 15, 30 minutes every week, and then a prep call prior to the event so that we make sure everything goes off without a hitch. And I could do these anywhere on the planet.

Pain is pain.

[00:16:17] Gary Ruplinger: And I, I was looking at your, your posts recently. I know you had mentioned one that maybe wasn’t so ideal where I think you said you had only five people ended up showing up, but you said five people turned into five follow up conversations. So sounds like the conversion rate here is, makes, it worth the, all the time and effort.

[00:16:38] Joe Fontana: Listen, one of these events, typically my client, if they sign one deal, they’re looking at a 15, 20x ROI. Typical deal my client has, might be between 150 and 200. My average event before hard cost is around 18 grand.

So it’s a simple math problem. Give me 18K I’ll give you 10 prospects. Let’s just use basic sales math. Of these 10 prospects, 40% of them are ready to rock and roll today because you said the right things and the timing was there. Because that’s the one thing I don’t ever solve for is budgets. Because the moment you ask a prospect, talk to me about your bank account,

talk to me about your budget. Gig is up. Every time I’ve had clients beg, just ask them what the money looks like. Okay, I asked them. That’s why we went from 15 registrations to three. Nobody wants to come because now they know what’s up. But that example that you shared a moment ago, I had an event last week.

Don’t know why it went from 12 to five. That’s the name of the game. Nobody wants to get in the car. The kid’s bike broke. Somebody hit the dog. Your Uber didn’t show up. There’s a myriad of reasons why people don’t show up. I’m just not in the mood. We’ve all been there, invited to an event, do I really want to go an hour out of my way, or do I want to see what the next episode of Grogu versus the Mandalorian looks like?

And I will always vote for I want to see what the next Mandalorian looks like. I will watch a Star Wars trailer for days on end. My wife is looking at me like I’m nuts. I’m watching the Ahsoka trailer looking for all Easter eggs like the big 50-year-old nerd that I am But five people were in the room. And again, I had a new host on site, so they didn’t really have the muscle memory of this is what happens when this happens, a new venue.

So we took things for granted because they took things for granted. It was the perfect storm of shit, but five conversations took place. Because it was smaller and more intimate, when this sentence came out, which happens every now and then, it was, this is the reason this follow up conversation, show me.

Does anybody have, do you have a dashboard, a user interface you can show me? Do I? Yeah, give me a second. And a seller’s opening up his laptop, not sharing a feature or benefit, just showing him. This is what I mean when I said that. Never happened in a 12 man room. But in a five person room, you can’t hide from the pain.

And because this client came with a conversation, these people opened up in ways they wouldn’t normally open up. And because there was only five, they’re opening up with far more intimacy simply because that’s the way conversations work. You more intimate with three people or 13?

[00:19:49] Gary Ruplinger: Definitely the smaller group I, yeah.

[00:19:51] Joe Fontana: I’m gonna share my pain with three guys that are telling me they have the same pain. Or do I want to be the dipshit in front of 13 people telling everyone my pants are down and I don’t know how to pull them up?

Laugh, but that’s what a lot of these guys come to the table with. I have a problem I’m embarrassed to talk about, so why would I ever talk about it with a seller or a or over bullshit DM? Or some stupid text that some 22 year, year old SDR is just inserted into a cadence? But I’ll talk about it with five of my peers.

This guy gets me, that guy gets me. Yeah, I have that same problem. Yeah, me too. And that’s why if you take that approach, things like me too and yeah, I get it, I have it, how did you solve it? What are you doing around it? That’s how you set yourself up for the credibility that builds trust and the trust that closes deals.

Sales is simple. I’ve been doing it for 35 years. I’ve got 90,000 hours of talk time. Ask anybody to do the math of what that looks like over 35 years. Yeah, I spent a lot of time on the phones. So I know what right looks like and how to do it wrong.

[00:21:08] Gary Ruplinger: You know, it sounds to me, I’m thinking kind of like back in my corporate career and I’d go to, I worked in the automotive space and, you know, go to events and things like that. The most interesting conversations were the ones you’d have at lunch and you sit down at a table, you’d shake some hands with some of your, like you said, shake hands with some of your peers and talk to them and kind of shoot the breeze and you’ll learn a lot of really interesting things that yeah, as soon as, you know, a vendor’s in the area or something like that, everybody shuts up. Sounds like, yeah, you’ve, kind of figured out somehow, you guys figured out the secret sauce to kind of turn, those types of conversations into the, product itself 

[00:21:45] Joe Fontana: But it takes an investment. I mean it takes besides the money, it takes an investment from my client to properly own the relationship and get words like pitches and discos and demos out of their vocabulary. It means a subject matter expert has to dedicate 8, 12 hours over the next week to continue these conversations, to set the framework that will allow a seller then to do all the things that sellers do.

Seller over a 30, 40 minute conversation after they’ve spent three hours at a dinner is as useless, is as useless as a blind chauffeur if they can’t walk away knowing okay, here’s my next step with this person. I either have an opportunity here and this is what we’re gonna do next, or I’ve got to wait three months.

So here’s what we’re gonna do next. A lot of people want to get it wrong, can’t help themselves get back into the me me. Oh, well because you sat for dinner, of course you want to sit for a demo. Of course you’re gonna open my case study. Of course you’re gonna allow me to add you to a mailing list. And everything that you think you’ve built has just petered away.

Take seconds to lose that credibility. And sellers can’t help themselves, which always boggles my mind because it’s a nine month sales cycle. What do you think I’m doing for you? You think it’s DocuSigns tomorrow? This is no different than anybody else you’re talking to. And because you are willing to do all of these different things, you are showing me, you’re not a seller, you’re not a partner to these people.

Because a six figure deal usually means seven, three years later. And a seven figure deal usually means seven and a half, three years later if you’re doing it right and you’ve built a partnership with this person, instead of just looking at them like a number. Nobody wants to be treated like a number anymore.

They have, the buyer has too much power now.

[00:24:00] Gary Ruplinger: That sounds like

[00:24:05] Joe Fontana: People talk about AI removing sales. How about a basic systems engineer removing sales? Because a buyer’s so educated and does so much homework that they don’t need to talk to a seller. They need to talk to the computer geek that’s coding it, that’s overseeing it, that’s alerting them when things go south.

Why do you think you’re seeing all these GTM engineers now? It’s I know the product as well as you do, I’m gonna present it to you. You don’t need to talk to a seller, when you’re ready you know how to find me.

[00:24:35] Gary Ruplinger: So who, who are kind of the right fits for something like this? Because it sounds, sounds like for the companies that it is a fit for and they invest in, it sounds like this is, you know, can be a, can be a home run type of solution. But I’m, who, who who kind of, who do you guys look for when you guys are saying hey, we want to work with these types of people?

[00:24:53] Joe Fontana: So

I live primarily in B2B Tech. So I’m working with marketing teams, you know, as large as AWS, Oracle and Microsoft and NTT Data, Databricks to founder-led organizations. People ask me all the time, how do I know you’re a fit? I’m a fit if you have, like I said earlier, a long sales cycle. Something that’s gonna, you know, maybe at the earliest is three months, but on average is six months, sometimes over a year.

If it’s a multiple stakeholder engagement, if these are six, seven figure deals that you’re looking to close, even on the low end, 60, 70,000. If that’s what your product is like, I can get you in a room with your top prospects. And it’s a pain that’s not just specific to B2B marketing. It’s how I found myself working with some of the largest law firms in the world.

I had a CMO, very prestigious tech company move into the legal world and she asked me, Joe, like, is it me or these prospects have the same problem? It’s a long sales cycle. These companies need multiple people involved in order to push this through. And these are six, seven figure in billing. So it took a minute, but I cracked that code too.

Because it’s the same problem, I don’t want to be sold to. Now the jargon and the acronyms, they might change. But there is a pain that they have that these law firms can fix, and so we just bridge that gap. Most of my retained business are with law firms or associations. Think about the largest trade associations, the largest organizations globally right now, and how they’re struggling with sponsorship or struggling to remain relevant with members who feel all I need to do is take this,

all I need to do is take this two page case study, plop her into Claude and save myself a $700 annual membership. So yeah, we, we are, are far reaching. We, we, not only for those of you that know the reference, we’re not only the George McFlys of building events, there’s so much around the events our clients are doing. The RSAs, the Black Hats, the inbounds, any regional conference where we can embed ourselves there.

So for example, we’re working with a very large association right now. Not only building out the dinners that get them in front of their top prospects, but ensuring that the spend at the large association groups, at those, like you said earlier, those types of wealth advisory things where you’re speaking to 30, 40 people, actually drive pipeline.

There’s a code. Now some of them are more exquisite than others and need us embedding ourselves in technology or in operations. Sometimes even just boots on the ground at Red Hat and RSA, Black Hat and RSA, whatever hat and RSA. And we do that too, and people always think it’s some exotic experiential thing.

No. People don’t need to be wowed to buy your product. They need to be heard.

[00:28:33] Gary Ruplinger: I, I love it. So if somebody, if somebody says, that’s me, I, I need some help, Joe. How do they get in touch with you?

[00:28:41] Joe Fontana: You can find me on LinkedIn. You can find me at joe@amzai.ai. A-M-Z-A-I.ai. But I am posting dumb dad jokes almost minute by minute on LinkedIn. You can certainly find me there. If you are a marketer or a founder or a leader in sales, I host monthly tastings so that you can see what one of these events look like without having to make an investment nor feeling like you have a target on your back.

So I drink my own juice. I prospect the same way I would prospect for Oracle or AWS. I target my top ICP, the industries where I’m crushing it, let’s just say cybersec or healthcare tech, enterprise management, legal tech. And I bring in the marketers and sellers that are part of my decision tree. And I don’t share a pitch,

I don’t ask them to review a deck and no one gets a case study. They get a box of chocolates. And if they’re unlike me and have a modicum of discipline and don’t eat it the day before the event, they’re walked through that package for 30 minutes by one of my chocolate tasters. And once that 30 minutes is over, it’s not the beginning of a pitch.

It’s not the beginning of a deck. It’s 60 minutes of talking through things. I know my ICP gets hot and bothered about, for example I’m doing one today, the topic is AI and automation and how it’s removing human connection. Or sales and marketing alignment and what’s needed between those teams and what real alignment looks like to drive either events or a cohesiveness that drives pipeline.

And it’s my prospect having a conversation with one another and learning and sharing. After the event, they all get everybody’s LinkedIn profile so they can continue learning and sharing and building their respective networks. And then I show up in their calendar a week later not to share anything, not to pitch.

When asked, I can show the work I do in their space and the research I’ve done on why I picked them to attend. But the choice is theirs. Majority of them come back to me 3, 6, 9 months later because I built my foundation on trust and credibility. When they tell me hey, I’m actually looking for this, I got a guy. Which sellers are terrified to do nowadays, but that’s why my network has stood the test of time as a seller, because it’s about the relationship.

If I can’t solve a problem, there’s somebody in my network who will. And for those that are in my network, a majority of them can say, because I insist on having a conversation with everybody I meet. You know, I annoyed the heck outta you when we first connected Gary. and then you threaten me with I don’t do phone calls, but I do podcasts, hold my beer.

I’ll do a podcast every day of the week and twice on Wednesdays. But jokes aside, the motions that are working nowadays are the conversation driven motions, are the humility motions, are the ones where you’re, just gargling a little bit of Listerine to get that commission breath off your mouth.

And when you do that, there will be pipeline. How quickly that pipeline turns into revenue, that’s up for you guys to decide and for you guys to do the work properly. To not cut corners, to not rely on somebody else to own these relationships. As my, my dear friend and partner in India tells me to do the needful.

[00:32:40] Gary Ruplinger: I have to admit, this sounds like a whole lot more fun than yeah, reading, reading another white paper or watching yet another, another Loom video.

[00:32:48] Joe Fontana: Or another one of your uncomfortable, this guy cold called me today.

Or the DM where you could see the person did no research and if they did research, they didn’t do any oversight. Nobody wants to, I talk about AI all the time, and I’ll end on this. Content without context is like a king without a crown.

Just because you have this knowledge doesn’t mean you know how to use it. I’ll quote Spider-Man because he’s the biggest thing, with power, great power comes great responsibility. And the average seller right now is a, like a 16-year-old Clark Kent. They just realized they can fly and can see through walls and have laser beams, but they’re too busy flying into walls and burning themselves in the mirror with their own laser eyes.

They don’t know how to use this power and because they don’t, my events thrive. So please go out and do all the shitty work the wrong way and cut corners and not want to engage with your prospects the way they want to be engaged with. Keep using modern tools on sales methodologies from the sixties and then wonder why you’re in my DMs seeing if I can help you find a job.

Truth, truth and truth.

[00:34:04] Gary Ruplinger: Well, well said. Well, Joe Fontana, everybody get in touch with him if you’re looking for a little bit better approach to get in front of, the right, right clients, right ICP for your company. So thanks so much Joe. Appreciate the conversation today.

[00:34:18] Joe Fontana: Gary, you’re the man. Thanks for having me. I’ve learned a lot through your content. It certainly makes me laugh, considering all my time on the phones, and man worth watching himself. Appreciate this. Thank you so much.

[00:34:33] Gary Ruplinger: Thank you.